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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:56 pm 
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You can view sectional tournament pairings, schedules, and venues here:

http://www.aia365.com/brackets/basketball-boys/d3/s1

I hope one of these number four seeds actually pulls off the improbable and wins their section tourney. Doing so will allow them to go to the state tourney as a top six seed regardless of their final powerpoint rankings. The outcry from the fans after it happens should be enough to get the AIA to change this stupid rule. Teams should be seeded by powerpoint rankings, including any team outside the top 24 who is lucky enough to win a section tourney and thereby make the state tournament.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:12 pm 
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Looks like a great sectional tournament up in Show Low this week!! GO LOBOS!!


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:34 am 
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I disagree, it's not a stupid rule. If a team wins their respective sectional tournament they earn the higher seeding. If it does happen, that team is obviously good enough team to beat the best teams in their section.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:16 pm 
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I think seeding the sectional champions #1-6 in the state tournament levels the playing field for weaker sections to have representation in the state tournament. The past couple of years, the outrcy was from those wanting to return to glory days of the regional tournaments. The sectional tournament does exactly that since it now rewards the sectional champion. If we learned anything from the past, it's not to rely solely on the power points.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:02 am 
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Outofbounds, Your name says it all with your thinking on this one. Either that or you are from Show Low.

Not that it's going to matter much as Snowflake should keep winning and take the Sectional Tournament but I ask you. Why play a full regular season if you are going to decide the top 6 seeds from a two game tournament? They need to have a Sectional Season Champ and Sectional Tournament Champ. I agree that if you should win the Sectional Tournament you deserve a automatic State Tournament bid, but your position should be based on your power points. Not a guaranteed top seed. If your regular season record puts you below the 24th seed, then you take the 24th spot.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:53 pm 
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Obert wrote about this topic on Feb. 8 and quotes a coach as saying, "So, a team that is ranked in the 30s, who wins Section 7 (Div. II), will get a first-round bye for the state playoffs?", then on Feb. 10 he goes on to write, "On the other hand, it’s good to see a team rewarded not just on power points but on how they do in their section." In a matter of two days he came to that conclusion.

Ultimately, what is occurring this season (in Div. II, III, IV) are two situations perhaps more but the two main ones I see are: 1) A log jam of very good teams trying to get into the state tournament with a weak section snatching up a high seed regardless of whether or not they are deserving of the high seed and 2) A very good, deserving team in a weak section that is ranked in the bottom 18 as a result of their geo-scheduling with the opportunity to be rewarded a high seed should they win their sectional tournament, which is happening now in Div. II and Div. IV respectively.

Basically, in any given season there will be strong and weak sections. From season to season, it's impossible to predict every possibility of strong and weak sections and/or the affects geo-scheduling gives an advantage or disadvantage to certain teams thereby leaving certain teams out of the state tournament. Not to mention the fact that the power points are somewhat weighted to teams playing stronger teams, yet losing those games. All things considered, I think a weak section should be rewarded. As mentioned, mainly affected will be the lowest seeds, so if a #23 and #24 seed is knocked out of the state tournament as a result of a weak section champion being rewarded a high seed in the state tournament is okay with me. Also, it's highly possible that a weak section will only send one team to the playoffs anyhow.

In all, you're not considering the affects of geo-scheduling, how it unfairly impacts certain teams especially teams in weaker sections; and the power points/seeding is not perfect (but better). I don't want to discuss geo-scheduling itself because geography will always be a problem since Arizona is a large state.

Blah, blah, blah…

All that to say, I think it boils down to this: SHOULD a WEAK section be REWARDED a HIGH seed in the state tournament?

To me, the answer is still YES. The full regular season is unfair to certain teams in weak sections due to scheduling, so I think they should be rewarded. Now there’s definitely more incentive to win the sectional tournament and it makes it very interesting. I agree, the three-game (2 semi & 1 final) sectional tournament is somewhat ridiculous but if a team makes the sectional tournament they obviously beat a majority of the teams in their section to get there.

Honestly, I want to see an unranked (below 24) team pull off a series of wins to earn the higher seeding, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

Two people opposed to seeding sectional tournament champions #1-6 in the state tournament sounds more like whining than an outcry.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:34 pm 
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As it stands, only one section (Div.II Sec.7) out of the 19 sections in Div.II, III, IV will DEFINITELY send an unranked team into the state tournament with high seed. We'll have to wait and see how many unranked teams actually pull off the feat of winning the sectional tournament. In most cases, I highly doubt the possibility of an unranked team pulling it off but Div. II is unique. I recognize the problems in Div. II but as a whole - I'm still okay with the concept of rewarding sectional champions. As with anything, it can be fixed. This year's tournaments/brackets are much improved over the past few years. The AIA doesn't get any credit for doing that. I'm not complaining about it. We'll see... Just enjoy the playoffs! Go Show Low!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:55 pm 
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You are right, it's unlikely that a team with a low ranking will pull off the upset, but right now on the girls side of Div. III you have Yuma Catholic (#27) and Morenci (#22) both playing for the section tournament championship. Chances are one of them will make it and become a top six seed in the girls state tournament.

In Boys Div. III Section IV you have Show Low playing in the section tourney over Holbrook and Blue Ridge even though those two teams beat Show Low TWICE during the regular season. Now Show Low has the chance to improve on their #20 seeding and maybe even swing a top 6 spot with two wins this week. Meanwhile, Blue Ridge and Holbrook sit idle this week and have to wait and see how far they move down in the seedings because teams that are worse than them get to play this week. I do not see any fairness in that, and that's just one example from one section of one division.

Solution:

If the AIA wants to reward teams for being better at this point in the season than they were earlier in the season, they should go ahead and sanction a true section tournament where all teams play and all teams have an opportunity to move up in the rankings with a win or two (or more if they can hang). When section tournaments are all done, take the top 24 teams in the rankings regardless of section tournament champs and put them on the bracket. Don't elevate a team from a #20 ranking to a #6 for winning two games (on their home court if you happen to be Show Low as a specific example). It's not fair to all the teams that get jumped who played as well if not better than them all season.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:09 pm 
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I think you just uncovered a flaw in the scheduling. Show Low BEAT Snowflake in their first game which was designated as a SECTION game on 1/14. Show Low LOST the second game which was designated as a FREEDOM game on 2/6. Now tell me, which game should affect their sectional standings. In my opinion it should have been the later game, not the first. Later in the season is when the games should matter the most. In the new system, not every team plays their sectional opponents twice, but in situations they do play twice - the later game should affect the season sectional standings.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:06 pm 
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It's not a huge flaw, but it did make a difference. Playing any team early in the season is not exactly the same as playing them later in the season.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:27 pm 
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Not that it matters to me but if you take this into consideration. The Roadrunners should be playing the Lobos, not the Cougars.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:42 pm 
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The ONLY reason that show low is even in the Sectional Tournament is because they lucked out on which games the AIA sanctioned as Sectional and which games they called Freedom games. This is not a good system. We are stuck with it for Two Years because that's how the AIA works. I've been told that Chinle had all home games which were counted as sectional games. Good this year, bad for next year.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:10 am 
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Geo-scheduling creating advantage/disadvantage. Imperfect


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:33 am 
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As far as the sections go, the AIA has it more right this scheduling block than they have for awhile. By cutting the sections in half, it makes all sections small enough that each team can play every other team in the section at least once. This didn't happen during the last two year block, and it made it impossible to declare a true regular season section champion because every team didn't play every other team. The resulting ties and tie-breaking protocols weren't very accurate or rewarding for all teams involved.

However, I agree with you that it would be an improvement to have all teams play every other team in their section twice in a home/away format. Most teams did that anyway, but only one of the two games counted as a section game.

As for geo-scheduling, I'm curious to know what teams you think are at an advantage/disadvantage due to geo-scheduling. Do you have any specific examples? For the most part, the top ranked teams come from different areas of the state. You have at least one team from each section within the top twelve spots of the current rankings. I don't really see the huge disadvantage for anyone this year. What's more, geo-scheduling is nothing new. Teams always play other teams that are closer to them rather than travel across the state for games, especially in basketball. Also, every team has the option of scheduling whoever they want for their freedom games. Most just choose to keep it close to home in order to keep costs down.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:38 am 
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On another note, Div. III boys now have Yuma Catholic (#17), Show Low (#20), and Combs (#22) who all have the chance to land a top six seed in the state tournament with one more win this week. This is too much of a reward for teams that had a mediocre showing all season long.


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