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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:31 am 
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It's not like public school athletes/coaches aren't aware of the advantages of the private schools; nobody is taken by surprise. How do you combat it? Work harder in the off-season! How can that be such a bad thing? You mean kids would end up with better work habits and be more driven to obtain their goals? Wow...imagine the possibilitie those lessons would carry over for those kids later in life!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:23 am 
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Spanky, you’re so full of crap. How many times have you bashed Blue Ridge because of accusations of them recruiting? The only reason you are taking the position that you are now is the fact that your girls will now be benefiting from the private school they are about to attend.
Look, I’m all about good competition. But you say over and over Spanky that 3A schools could never compete with the bigger schools. Well a good share of these private schools can compete with any school in the state. 3 years ago Scottsdale Christian had three out of four of the division 1 players in the State. I believe they beat the 5A 1 champ that year before going on to win their division 2A championship. There is no doubt that the AIA treats private School recruiting differently than public schools.

Be consistent in your argument.


Last edited by Chevy00 on Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:42 am 
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You've got it all wrong...I personally could care less if a school recruits or not. It's the manner in which BR recruited that I don't agree. Those kids were in trouble at their previous schools for various reasons stemming with run-ins with the law. By transferring and be allowed to play the kids were done a disservice in that they failed to be held accountable for their actions. A school benefited by receiving their athletic services AT THE EXPENSE of a life-lesson that should have been learned by the children. There's a huge difference between parents enrolling their children into a superior institution for academic/athletic reasons and, for example, enrolling their child in a new school because their child was held accountable by a former coach and booted from the team as a consequence for actions. In my opinion, one coach in this purely hypothetical situation had the best interest of the child in mind while the other had the best interest of his program in mind. There's a huge difference there!

My argument has always been consistent and I've always stated the facts in which I again just stated.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:56 am 
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Private schools offering academic scholarships... I don't see anthing wrong with that. I'll be honest, at first I was willing to cry foul and say they're cheating, they're recruiting. Yeah, it is no coincidence some kid who is 6'5" or 6'7" and has a good jump shot is offered an academic scholarship, but the more I think about it, these students are winners in the classroom as well as on the basketball court, football field, etc. Isnt' that the goal?

Just like how BR is the paradigm for measuring success on the football field, the private schools are the paradigm for measuring success in academics and athletics. Year in, year out, you will continue to hear about private schools like St Mary's, Brophy, Seton Catholic, the list goes on and on, of private schools that do well in sports. Maybe in the near future their dominance in athletics will require them to be placed into a private school league, but in the meantime like Doug said teams shouldn't "shrink from the challenge".


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:57 am 
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And you're incorrect regarding your other point in that the reasons my girls will be attending Salpointe in high school is for academic/philosophical reasons, as I've already stated within a previous post. In my opinion, for the most part, public schools simply don't prepare children well enough for the academic rigors of college. The houses I'm looking at are either in the CDO or Ironwood Ridge high schhol districts, and they have just as good of athletic programs as Salpointe. In fact, my 11 year old is a switch-hitting dynamo at softball who already clears the fences who has already caught the attention of college coaches at the camps she has attended (regular attendee at the Mike Andreas UofA camp, for one) and CDO actually has a far better softball program than Salpointe. My youngest is a volleyball player, and all three programs are comparable. Once again though, athletics isn't the reason for my decision.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:58 am 
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"these students are winners in the classroom as well as on the basketball court, football field, etc. Isnt' that the goal?" - outofbound



Spot on!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:03 pm 
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As long as we are talking about hypotheticals, I’ll give you one. Let’s say that your girls end up playing basketball and have a pretty good team. They could be really good if they just had a big girl in the middle. And they could be really, really good if they could just had a girl that could push the ball up the floor to go along with their up-tempo offense. Well, if they are like most private schools, they will go after those very positions. Great moral lesson there.

But you have also said that smaller schools cannot compete with bigger schools. Well either that statement is not true or there is major recruitment going on. Maybe we should go back the way Indiana basketball used to be and put everyone school in the same tournament and have no class champions. If that was the case, I would bet my last dollar that private schools would win more than their share.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:05 pm 
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...but I've always stated that I disagree with transfers based solely on athletics.

The overall picture has to be taken into consideration. Public schools typically have less stringent academics than their private counterparts. I'd venture to say that's it takes more work for a student attending a private school to maintain their athletic eligibility, would you agree? Lets face it, college prepatory courses are far more difficult than the basic courses offered within public schools. If a kid has the athletic ability to play at the next level, and is capable of maintaining the grades at a private school, wouldn't that be beneficial to him/her? How many athletes do we read about every year who are at public schools who fail to meet college entrance requirements and are forced to take the junior college route? Quite a few. In fact, the NCAA stated within their 2011 statistics that 1 in 4 have to take this route because they were ill-prepared by public schools for the college entrance exams.

So my answer to the issue would be this...if a kid is transferring just to be a part of a winning team then that's wrong. However, if a kid is transferring in order to enhance his chances of passing the college entrance exams then that's the right reasoning. Take a look around the country at college prepatory schools (Oak Hill Academy, Findley Prep and De La Salle come to mind) and you'll find institutions that excel on the athletic field BECAUSE they provide the opportunity to prepare kids for college. If those kids weren't great athletes would had a chance to play at the next level do you think they'd be putting themselves through those academic rigors? I doubt it.

The answer lies within the public school systems themselves. Make the public schools a better quality learning environment and kids will stay. however, we all know that isn't going to happen because the mentality of public schools isn't about education, it's about $$$. How else can you explain the issues that arise within the classrooms in public schools that are tolerated, yet the school hounds a parent for taking their children out of school a couple days for a vacation? It's because the public schools are more concerned with the federal funding they receive for having those disruptive troublemakers at least sitting in a classroom, regardless of whether or not they retain anything. That's not the case in private schools though; those who are disruptive and/or can't make the grades simply are denied funding by the schools and/or asked to leave. Kinda off the subject a bit, but it really does explain so much when you stop to think about it

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:54 pm 
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Used to coach in 2A, which is full of private schools...We would always complain that they should move up to at least 3A...Which a lot of them did for basketball...Gilbert Christian was 1A last block...These teams were moved up 1 to 2 classifications and did very well...We would always tell our kids not to get caught up in the Private vs Public debate...You bust your a** harder in the off-season and make sure you beat them the following year...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:19 pm 
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Private schools have open enrollment. Public schools have school boundaries. If you live in Avondale and all your friends attend St. Mary's in Phoenix, You are able able to play for St. Mary's under their open enrollment as long as you did not play for a public school as a high school athlete the year before. That is how private schools can recruit legally. Public schools go by school boundaries. Whatever district that you live in is where your athletic eligibility is. That is the loop hole that private schools use to get athletes from all over the valley. So now try to tell me that private schools do not recruit.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:30 am 
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Like I previously stated, let public schools recruit. However, that is not all that's needed for public schools to compete in basketball. This is because it is not just their players that are of higher quality, but their teachers, administrators, and coaches are generally better too.

I read an article about a private school's girls basketball coach (who just won a State championship), illustrating his daily engagement in his players' academics and health. He talks to their teachers then texts each of the players daily questions from their classes, then before practice begins tests them on those questions. Away games include studies in roadside geology and culture of the community they travel to. Meals on the road are planned for nutrition and mind/body performance. Compare these examples to the typical public school scene where road meals are at Circle-K, bus trips are with head phones on and Little Wayne rap piped into kids' heads, and teachers and coaches never talk about their student-athletes in a way to help them excel in both the classroom and on the court.

Public schools can already hire/fire/recruit teachers and coaches, so have at it. Do what you can now, and don't hold your breath waiting for the AIA to act.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:04 am 
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“Private schools have open enrollment. Public schools have school boundaries. If you live in Avondale and all your friends attend St. Mary's in Phoenix, You are able able to play for St. Mary's under their open enrollment as long as you did not play for a public school as a high school athlete the year before. That is how private schools can recruit legally. Public schools go by school boundaries. Whatever district that you live in is where your athletic eligibility is. That is the loop hole that private schools use to get athletes from all over the valley. So now try to tell me that private schools do not recruit.”

Absolutely false. We all have gone down this road before. Same old complaints and inaccuracies regarding the Christian schools.

#1 - Most if not all schools in Phoenix have open enrollment. You are able to go to whatever school you want.

#2 – Charter schools such as Horizon Honors and North Pointe Prep are NOT private schools.

#3 – St. Mary’s, Salpointe, Brophy are much much differently run than Seton, Valley Christian, Scottsdale Christian, Gilbert Christian, or Northwest Christian. These 3 schools have a much bigger constituency, have been around a lot longer and all participate at a higher level because they can market to the athletes who want that experience. The rest do not offer “athletic scholarships” --- period.

#4 – If you look at the total number of transfers that occur in the valley – the %’s are much higher for kids going from public to public and even private to public. This is because they only have to be outside of a school boundary to be eligible. Private schools do have strict boundaries by AIA law. The boundary in Phx is the ENTIRE MARICOPA COUNTY. The percentages of kids leaving private schools to play is far higher than those coming into private schools to play.

#5 – Hardship rules by AIA state you have to prove that this is not an athletic transfer. It is so much easier to leave a private school because you can claim financial hardship in that you can no longer pay tuition so you need to go to a public or charter school. Trying to go the other direction will always guarantee that you will sit a year unless the move is a great distance like Tucson to Phoenix or something similar to that. Quite frankly, per AIA rules – you cannot even transfer between private schools in the same county.

And if you don’t believe me, then cite facts and examples of transfers where kids transferred to play sports.

Also, I would love to hear the number of athletes at these so called “recruiting institutions” that are on scholarship. My guess is it is 0 or very very near to 0.

I have no affiliation with SCA but one example, you gave ---- SCA’s team of Division 1 athletes that you cited. The facts are that 4 of the five basketball starters were at SCA by or before 3rd grade. (I am sure that the high school coaches were recruiting them at that point, cause they could see the height and ability already in kindergarten.) The other starter was from an “out of country Christian missionary family” who came in wanting a Christian education in jr high. There was no connection to the school until he enrolled.

Are there advantages ------ ABSOLUTELY. Year around athletics, more stable families, families who can pay tuition can send kids there. Those are all advantages, no doubt.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:24 pm 
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All those Division 1 kids from SDC sure does throw a monkey wrench in Spanky’s argument about mass population producing better athletic teams.

Personally I think your head is in the sand. Next you’ll be trying to tell us that last years Orme team were all child hood buddies also. They just happened to all grow up in different countries.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:32 pm 
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Comeon now chevy...obviously you hold some deep-rooted animosities towards me from previous posts. Apparently you'll never get over my contentions that BR football simply doesn't stack up against the larger programs. GOOD! I'm glad I can have that effect on you to the point where my posts have such an adverse effect on your psyche!


Now, common sense would dictate that when talking about basketball in comparison to football, well...there's no comparison. A private school offering excellent college prepatory classes is more than capable of hanging with the big boys in basketball because there's only 5 players on the court. Typically, a "dominant" high school basketball team will only have 2 (3 if they're lucky) players who carry the team. The same simply can't be said regarding football. A high school football team can have a D1 QB, RB and maybe a LB and CB and still be a sub-.500 team. So my argument holds true for football; the larger schools are typically better because they have a larger population base to draw talent. I don't recall using the same argument for basketball, but then again, whenever you read my posts you do have a tendancy to become a bit tunnel-visioned and you seem to fixate on the portions of the post that you disagree, rather than be open-minded enough to take the entire post as it's meant to be...simply an opinion that happens to usually be supported by a couple facts. I love that about you........but even more importantly, I love being the cause of it!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:03 pm 
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Let me just say this, Coach Moro could have won five to six State Championships at the 5A level had he been allowed to compete. You know it, and I know it.


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